Mullen spokesperson clarifies Hindenburg Report: Full Interview Transcript

Written by Cláudio Afonso |

The host of Risk on Show Podcast said this Friday that he and his team will host a special episode today with “one of the parties Hindenburg claims it spoke with in supporting its claim that Mullen was a fraud”. The episode comes on the day after Hindenburg Research Firm claimed that the electric vehicle maker “apparently misrepresented the test results, according to the CEO of the company that performed the tests”.

“We are hosting a special podcast in today. Our guest will be one of the parties Hindenburg claims it spoke with in supporting its claim that Mullen was a fraud. Seems Hindenburg may have misrepresented what he said. You won’t want to miss this exclusive important interview.” The episode hosted by Milton Todd will start around 10:45 PST and you can follow the Live Updates below.


Full Interview Transcripted

(Most recent conversation at the top.)

Tom (Host 1): Thank you. We appreciate you. Special thanks to Tom Gage. Take care!

Tom Gage: yes, we tested it. The results were clear, the report is available.

Jason (Host 2): So, just to summarize: You did test the battery for Mullen. You were clear about that.

Tom Gage: I’ve been doing some advisory works for other companies. I did see Mullen at the Los Angeles Auto Show, I think their car looks great. This is a funny business, people make all kind of claims and pretty much every company exagerate from time to time but you never know who’s gonna come out with something really good. So, keep your eyes open.


Jason (Host 2): Is there a scenario where you could do more tests for Mullen?

Tom (Host 1): Tom, we appreciate you being with us.

Tom Gage: Yes. There was another report where he summarized our findings, and the only difference —Tom Gage connection lost—

Tom (Host 1): Just to set the record straight, Tom. You tested the battery, you did put it through a cycle and what Mullen represented about the battery, you believe that’s correct.

Tom Gage: Well, I had a little trouble remembering when I was talking to the reporter and also because it sounded he may have been questioning wether we tested the battery at all. And if I gave him that impression that was erroneous, we did test the battery on one cycle and we give them the results. Any idea saying that we didn’t tested it is wrong.

Tom Gage: Just to bring it back on the Hindenburg report, do you feel comfortable being misquoted on the report? How do you characterise do way you were mentioned on the report?

Tom Gage: No, we didn’t. And frankly I didn’t know at the time specifically what the chemistry and the construction of the sell that we tested was. It appeared to be a super-large version of the conventional battery.


Jason (Host 2): regarding the overall cost and the density, it looks like they’re saying that the Lithium Sulfur Battery could have five times more energy density and 50% less cost per Whatt hour, exceptional safety profile,…did you speak about any of this safety profile when you tested it?

Tom Gage: I can’t tell you, I’m not too familiar with the packaging of their car.

Jason (Host 2): So, keeping with the possible 600 mile range, could that battery be retrofitted in like the package cars which Mullen is working on? Would that fit there? Because of the size..

Tom Gage: The range it really depends on how much battery you put in the car, and then the efficiency of the vehicle is the other major factor. So, if they wanna double the size of the battery that would double the range but, in many tastesm they don’t have enough room to double the size of the battery.

Jason (Host 2): So with the solid state battery, Mullen says that believes that the future of the batteries is in the solid state battery which is why they’re exploring the pratical and sustainable application of the solid state battery technology. So, it shows that pure EV Crossover SUV, the FIVE, with 325 mile range.. what’s the difference of that range battery and the possible 600 mile range on a single charge?

Tom Gage: I don’t have any experience with that specific lithium Technology…I know it has been improving over the years and lower costs and eventually much longer life…

Jason (Host 2): I just wanted him to talk about the Lithium batteries, they used the same manufacturing equipment as the lithium ion but with simpler steps and a smaller factory footprint. Can you talk a little bit about that and how it relates with the cost of manufacturing..can you get into that?


Tom (Host 1): Jason, do we have any questions for Mr. Tom Gage?

Tom Gage: Well, sure. I did look through the report sand I want to clarify that when he called me I did remeber testing it but I couldn’t remember the results or how we tested it or when, actually. I found on the report that we submitted to Mullen on the testing and it was a legit test. The test results we got showed that the battery had 343 of capacity, which is a lot for a single cell but it was a very large physical size. We only did one cycle on the cell because our equipment was for lower current testing. That one cycle took almost 30 hours so, it was a very slow in which tends to give you a larger capacity. But, I think the capacity is legit.

Tom (Host 1): Do you feel you was misquoted with Hindenburg report? We have never talked before beside the texts earlier this morning so I have no idea what you’re gonna say next. But, your thoughts about the report, do you want to comment at all?

Tom Gage: Sure. We did test the battery for Mullen, we’re also doing some other work on some other packs and they deliver this one for us to test and to talk about the results. The 600 miles number that’s a number that depends on how big the car is, how big the battery is and how efficient the drive and the aerodynamics are. So, is quite possible to do it. If you put enough battery into the car, it can go 600 miles.

Tom (Host 1): What? i’m in Long Beach too! Mr. Gage, just for you to understand, we’re long on Mullen, we bought it when it was a private company. So, we’re not recommending the stock and we know you’re not doing that either. But you did tehe research on the battery, can you give your thoughts on the battery testing? Jason was talking about the 600 mile potential, I wonder if you can give any comments here.


Tom Gage: I’m actually in Long Beach at the Long Beach Grand Prix. (laughs)

Tom (Host 1): Mr. Gage, where are you by the way?

Tom Gage: Thank you! It’s good to be here.

Jason (Host 2): Let’s just give a little backstory, we’re gonna have Tom in just a moment. On February 28, Mullen issued a press release updating its progress on the development of its solid state battery Technology. The release included recent developments and additional details on testing conducted by the independent testing lab EV Grid suggesting that the battery may be capable of allowing a electric vehicle more than 600 miles on a single charge. In a report issued Tuesday, which cause the company stock to decline as much as 25%, short-seller Hendinburg allegated that Mullen misrepresented the results of the battery test technology that cause the stock to surge more than 300% off of its lows. Today, in a interview whe have Mr. Tom Gage, a scientist and Chief Executive Officer of EV Grid to address the test results and to exclusively share with our audience wether Hindenburg accurate describe its conversation with them. Mr. Gage, welcome and thank you for joining the Risk on Podcast.


Tom (Host 1): If you read the report, it says: “After extensive research, we have taken a short position in shares of Mullen Automotive. The report represents our opinion, and we encourage every reader to do their own due diligence. Please see our full disclaimer at the bottom of the report. So let me give our full disclamer. Through a subsidiary, has made an investment in the company when it was a private company before the reverse merge. I met David Michery one time, I went to the facility a month or so ago. I did an interview with him on my podcast one time. I spoke with him 3 times by phone and the conversations lasted less than 5 minutes. I want to be crystal clear, we’re not recommending trading the stock. However, we are gonna represent the other side and we have a pretty successful enginer Tom Gage who’s joining us now. Jason, if you could make an introduction about Tom Gage. By the way, just for clear, Tom is gonna be reporting independently of what he wants to cover here. He was quoted in the report. For the record, I never met Mr. Gage, I don’t know him. No one on this podcast has been paid by me or Risk On.”

Jason (Host 2): “I didn’t look throught it all because I’ve been so busy with my day-job but I did notice the fact that it claims about the battery life and some of the other things: package cars, their facilities… that Mullen stock spiked 316% over the past couple of months, driven mainly by retail investor euphoria, overbold claims of groundbreaking technology, blablabla. So we’re gonna have Mister Tom Gage on, he’ll be able to set the records from his point of view and we’re just gonna act a form here to deliver the news from his side.”

We’re gonna interview him because he claims he was misquoted and provided us data including reports in testing. If you read the Hindenburg report, it talks about the company and a lot about the solid state battery. Unfortunately for Hindenburg, today we’re gonna have the guy who did the testing on and talk about what actually happened and how he thinks he was misquoted. Jason, you remember that Hindenburg report a few days ago, do you want to talk about it?


Tom (Host 1): Welcome everyone, this is a special episode about Mullen Automotive. We’re gonna cover a ton of topics here, one of them is the Battery Life. We’re gonna have the engineer that did the testing and that was quoted on the report. I know some people in the audience are against Hindenburg. I don’t have an issue with them, I run an hedge fund, I also short from time to time. Hindenburg has been successful like in Nikola identifying issues,etc. I’m not taking a position against Hindenburg. I was offered an opportunity to interview someone who is involved in the battery research that was quoted in the report.


Mullen Automotive shares slumped on Thursday after Hindenburg Research’s report released on Wednesday, April 6. After the initial disclosure revealing the short position taken on Mullen shares, the research firm enumerates several reasons to justify its position on Mullen. Nate Anderson, founder of Hindenburg Research, is known for targeting companies that he thinks are overvalued and have suspect financials. The CEO had also other electric vehicle makers as a target like Nikola Corp. and Lordstown Motors.


After extensive research, we have taken a short position in shares of Mullen Automotive. This report represents our opinion, and we encourage every reader to do their own due diligence. Please see our full disclaimer at the bottom of the report.

Nate Anderson, founder of Hindenburg Research

Mullen Automotive announced this Monday the promotion of Mullen executive John Taylor to the role of senior vice-president of Global Manufacturing and Strategic Planning. Taylor joined Tesla in 2010 being one of the first 50 employees, leading the advanced manufacturing engineering group. Taylor played a critical role in opening Tesla’s Fremont facility and manufacturing operations for the Tesla Model S and architecture for future EV projects.

On April 1, Mullen Automotive CEO David Michery filed a SEC form announcing changes in beneficial ownership with transactions made betwen March 22 and March 28, 2022. Michery sold 300,000 shares at an average price of $2.495 ($748,500 USD), disposed of 428,382 contracts and acquired 1,198,328 contracts. Last December, Michery had filed a form disclosing ownership of 22,174,720 shares of Mullen — 62.5% ownership.


Last week, Mullen’s CEO unveiled many catalysts for the American EV maker (Full interview here). Michery was one of the guests of Benzinga Listmaker Show showed confidence when asked about the chip shortage issues: “We’re fairly confident that we identified enough partners to ensure that we’re not gonna to have any delays in the builds of our products”. The Company has two electric vehicles under development, one of which we expect to begin delivery of in the second quarter of 2024.

“I really wanted credit Elon Musk and Tesla for opening the door for all the EV guys, including myself to give us an oportunity to be successful. At the end of the day, when we sat down and we looked to what we wanted to do and what people were doing, we said “Listen, it doesn’t have to be a cheap car, it doesn’t have to be a small car, it doesn’t have to compete for the cheapest car in America. But it has to be something that is appealing, “S** does sell”, and performances definitely gathers a lot of attention.” — David Michery said.

Recently, the company announced that it expects to report in excess of $65 million in cash and cash equivalents when it files Form 10Q for the Company’s second quarter ending March 31, 2022. “We’ve made tremendous progress in key areas over the past three months,” said David Michery, CEO and chairman of Mullen Automotive. “With the financing we received, we now have more than enough capital to execute on our commitments for 2022, including the start of the Mullen FIVE EV Crossover program and continued development on the Mullen ONE EV Cargo Van program. The Company’s balance sheet is the strongest it has ever been in our history.


Recently and related to Mullen‘s article published by Wccf Tech, CEO David Michery enhanced the supporters that have been bringing a lot of attention to the EV maker during the last weeks. The Wccf Tech article highlights the continued interest Mullen is seeing from a growing fan base for the Mullen FIVE EV Crossover. Mullen’s CEO was recently on the 199th episode of Risk On Podcast on Wednesday. Michery talked about Mullen’s origins, the design options to increase the performance, the battery tech updates. Also Mullen’s loan status and the acceptance of Bitcoin as a payment were among the themes.

Recently, CarBuzz, world’s premier car-related news site and app with over 9 million monthly visits, highlighted Mullen’s FIVE Model saying that the model is luxury crossover in the fullest sense of the word luxury. The publication says that “the California-based company will be joining Tesla, Rivian, and Lucid as real American competition to legacy automakers as the EV market grows.”

Written by Cláudio Afonso |